NextDoor is a social media app with a focus on your own neighborhood. I occasionally scan it for news in the area, and for posts which mention dogs. A few times I’ve connected with people having scared dogs and helped them, but we also get quite a few posts on dog attacks. On August 10, 2021, this woman posted about a dog attack, and attracted over 320 responses, a few of which I’ll discuss below.
This particular thread had many discussions and arguments given in a helter-skelter fashion. So here we have a collection of myths, fantasies, guesses, and bold accusations. The goal here is to explore some of the typical views and opinions of people on this issue.
The Reported Attack
Rivers Edge is a beautiful place to live and walk. This morning on Riverside Drive I was attacked by a big, black dog. I ended up in Urgent care. If anyone knows who owns this dog, please message me. It was extremely aggressive and if I hadn’t had a baseball bat, the story could have ended badly. The police said they couldn’t help. I called Animal control who said they would come and look for the dog.
No. Totally unprovoked. Came up from behind me. We took this picture from our car. Elderly people and a school bus stop was close to the attack. I’m very concerned about what could have happened.
Question: You were just walking down the street, alone with just your baseball bat? Or, did you also have a small dog with you?
Just me and my trusty bat.
Jane J.
Rivers Edge is a small development in Rio Rancho, NM. It’s fairly quiet, safe, and pretty. And here we just have a perfectly ordinary woman, just walking down the street and minding her own business, just like hundreds of other people.
But, perhaps it’s carrying the bats that results in very few incidents of women being attack by men and dogs here? Looking around, however, the best I could find was a woman in the park carrying a large set of kitchen tongs. Perhaps a new form of martial arts? Then she opened a plastic bag, leaned over and picked up some trash.
The Typical Report
Regarding the reported facts here, I used to be called out for many dog issues, often with aggression. In nearly all cases, what I found was somewhat different from the story I was given. Did the people lie? No, of course not! But, they often missed important details and misinterpreted others. In many cases I was then able to take the dog(s) involved, and have them demonstrate what actually happened, and how to resolve it. Alternately, using the original description would have gotten us nowhere.
Think of all the TV crime shows, with five witnesses having five stories. Then take a baseball player, a soccer player, and a tennis player. Have all three watch and report on a tennis match. Which one would you expect to be more accurate? Next, do the same, only with a store clerk and a receptionist as the first two people, and that’s close to what we may have here.
Yes, and Jane has given us her account. What are you suggesting? That she’s lying? I know Jane personally. I don’t believe she’s even capable of antagonizing a dog as some are suggesting.
Ron U.
Not capable of antagonizing a dog? I’ve yelled at force-free dog trainers for aversive behavior with a poor dog. I’ve seen dog lovers just scare the crap out of nervous dogs, and claim they have no idea why they were bitten. Or, a nervous but interested dog walks up to a person, stops, and lightly growls to indicate they are afraid. The person yells, stamps their feet, and start swinging a stick. And gets bitten.
We know what happened because Jane gave us her account.
Ron U.
Being that very few people know much of anything about dog behavior, and that fewer still have direct experience in managing fights and altercations, there are very few witness stories which are accurate and complete.
Many times I have to try and get enough detail to duplicate the issue, then hear that the people were told to never let that happen again. That letting the dog show aggression even one more time might lock that in. And I then have to explain that he’s likely done this hundreds of times before, so that one more won’t change anything. And, that unless we can fully and accurately describe exactly what happened, any solution is only a weak guess.
The Difference Here
Over the past years, there have been many reports of dog attacks on NextDoor. Nearly all of them involving one or more loose dogs often attacking a person walking a dog, especially a small one. There were a few other cases, where the dog escaped his yard and the person was passing right by there. Or a few people running who were chased by dogs.
But, this is the first one I’ve seen, where a small black dog attacked only a person and from behind.
This is Doom and Cannot be Fixed
He is collard and has a tag. You were attacked and the police can’t help! This animal is dangerous! I am sorry you were injured, but a child would not be able to defend themselves. The animal needs be put down. This is why I tell people not to keep a vicious dog in a rural community. This type of behavior is impossible to correct and a death sentence for the dog.
Bonnie C.
Except, for all the reports on dog attacks, the only one involving a child was their own dog, in their own back yard, several years ago. Alternately, I suppose we could equip all school children with their very own baseball bats? Maybe little bats for the young kids?
While there are often many dog bites each year, very few of those dogs are declared to be vicious. Locally, the dog must bite without provocation and cause serious injury or death to be vicious. Here, the latter condition was not true, and the former one was somewhat in question.
As to Bonnie’s saying this behavior is impossible to correct, let’s first note here that Bonnie C. is a dog lover and has dogs. Over the years I’ve seen many dogs overtly abused by people, but I’ve found the vast majority of suffering and death in dogs was due to the profound ignorance of people like this. Where hundreds of scared dogs are killed if they ever dare to growl or show their teeth.
And She Knows Dog Training
Is that a working dog?
Not a working dog. Anyone can buy those vests. The only working dog that is trained to attack that way is a police dog, which are not or should not be kept in residential areas as pets.
Scott M. and Bonnie C.
Because he seems to have a padded harness on? And in exactly what way was that dog trained to attack? And now you’re going to stop a police dog with just a baseball bat? Good luck on that one. As for retired police or military service dogs being pets in residential areas, they are typically much safer than a woman who walks around with a baseball bat.
But this dog could just have a bad attitude and the attack could have nothing to do with training.
Alison G.
Or, even more likely, it had nothing at all to do with anything that you said. Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today?
I trained my dog in search and rescue, no matter what kinda day he had, he would never attack a person randomly. Might be a different story if he thought someone was attacking me, or if he he felt threatened but never out of the blue or unprovoked. Even tho he is well behaved, I would never leave him with small children or strangers. Because he is capable of making a deadly mistake. I am responsible for his well-being and the well being of others. I love him too much to risk these kinds of mistakes. He looks like he can jump most fences.
Bonnie C.
Ah, somebody who has done a little training with their dog! So, prey tell, why didn’t she complete the socialization? What she mentions with children would not be her dog’s mistake, but hers. Mine is just fine with very young children and meeting all types of strangers, and can often do that entirely on his own.
As for her dog’s response if Bonnie was attacked, without training you really don’t know. Most likely the dog would run away and hide.
So, Bonnie’s trained dogs in search and rescue, but believes that little black guy could jump most fences? That search training involves running broken ground and jumping or climbing obstacles, so you learn a dog’s limitations. I’d say that something’s a bit off here in Bonnie’s alleged expertise.
The Law, the Law
When it’s caught, it will likely be put down for attacking you. It doesn’t take much for an animal to be ruled viscous by animal control sadly. This is from the ordinance.
Matt W.
Unfortunately, Matt then gave the county ordinance on vicious animals, without ever looking up their definition of vicious. The city ordinance is more extensive, and has a section on provocation, where the dog is not blamed if the person is attacking the dog.
Further, in years of reports of dog attacks on NextDoor, there were few if any where the dog was put down. So, it actually takes a considerable effort from animal control to declare a dog as vicious.
The usual is that the E.R. doctor will order the animal be impounded for 10 days or a rabies treatment for a person bit by any animal. Hope animal control was able to catch and impound
RG
While they are required to report animal bites, I’ve never heard of any state where any doctor has the authority to have an animal impounded. (Nor would any doctor ever want that liability.) And that is certainly not true in NM. If they took the time to read a dozen other reports on dog attacks in this forum, they would find that is only done if they can immediately identify the dog’s owner.
Abuse, Triggers, and PTSD
The baseball bat could have been the trigger if this dog happened to have an abusive past or current situation.
Allison G.
Unless that dog has been repeatedly hit with a baseball bat, why on earth would that be the trigger? Alternately, any kind of stick you raise above your head to strike him with would be considered an attack. Further, most dogs with abusive pasts tend to run away and hide.
Sometimes stories need more context to get a bigger picture of what happened. I’ve seen many people try and approach dogs, where they aren’t watching the body language of the dog or are not familiar with animal body language. They have good intentions in trying to help the dog, but it can go completely wrong. It’s sad because these dogs are usually mistreated and they struggle to trust humans. It’s awful for anyone to get bit by a dog.
Natalie H.
I agree. I’m with you, you’re not victim blaming you’re just broadening that whether it may be unprovoked from the position of a human dogs don’t think like humans. I had a dog since he was a puppy. Never abused but he hated and felt very threatened by guys in hats. One of my dogs now, I’m not sure what happened in his first two months but I can’t talk to him in a scolding voice. His entire being shuts down and he will run and hide in fear. Even when the other trouble making dog is getting a talking to he will still go and hide. Jane Jewell I hope you understand we aren’t blaming anything on you, what happened is very unfortunate and what happened is on a human not the animal. Even feral animals won’t attack unprovoked
Alison G.
Actually, for a dog being fearful in approaching a human, the vast majority of times this has nothing at all to do with being mistreated or lacking trust. Instead, it’s simply a lack of social skills.
Look at this another way, if the dog is simply not interested in people, he will just walk away, and nothing happens.
If he is interested but lacks the social skills to understand both what may happen, and how he can deal with that in a manner both acceptable to people and which pleases him, he will approach very cautiously and afraid. If the human then lacks manners and either reaches for him or yells at him, he will become very afraid. At that point, he may run, freeze, or lunge forward. Two out of three of those may result in the person being bitten.
As for Alison and her dog feeling threatened by guys in hats, she could never fix that because it was never strictly true. I actually tested that with about 300 shelter dogs, and for each and every fearful one I was able to prove it was never really the hat. As for what happened to Alison’s dog in the first two month, the most likely answer is completely nothing. That the dog was not allowed to experience the world while receiving guidance and support, and simply learning nothing.
Alison yes, you make an excellent point. Dogs like that are often mistreated, but not always. There are just some dogs that have particular things that they just get triggered by. Just like humans can get triggered by certain things
Natalie H.
But those triggers are almost always something the dog is not familiar with and finds scary, like maybe a baseball bat coming down from above. And every single case I’ve ever seen has never been a single trigger, but a class of similar items. And the dog simply learning how to understand (predict) and cope with them resolves the issue.
Unless, you’re like Alison above, and avoid teaching the dog, so he never improves.
My point was that it only takes one simple trigger to get an uncontrolled brutal reaction.
Alison G.
Abused dogs have triggers – PTSD – they can be withdrawn or feel defensive- not the dog’s fault!
Shantell B.
Really? Sure, I’ve known a few people like that, but only a few. Dogs tend to be much calmer and more logical. And her connection between abuse and triggers is just garbage. Just because something can happen, does not mean it will, or is even likely. Instead, most abused dogs just seek distance and escape.
The Legal Route
Thats called Damages and there are attorney that specialize in DOG BITES ONLY. Until people pay this will continue.
Karen B.
Rather obviously, this Karen has never bothered to check past her imagination, into things like the minimum dollar amount of an injury case that any attorney would ever consider taking. Or, how much it would cost her to pay those legal fees to pursue somebody.
Wayne T.
you want to do something about the dog, assuming he is being treated poorly, you can call Animal Control at 505 891-5075 and request an Animal Welfare Check. Since you were injured you are also entitled to file a claim for medical expenses against the owner’s homeowners policy. They will pay all you medical expenses and, prior to renewal, they will mandate that he get rid of the dog (adopt out, not euthanize) or they will cancel him and no other company will insure him with a history of dog bite.
Given that Jane has stated she has no idea where the dog lives, how could she request this? Similarly, to file a claim for medical expenses she has to first identify the owner, then go to court. As for how the insurance company will react, given a single and minor incident, Wayne must be smoking something pretty potent there.
Always be Armed and Ready
This is exactly why I ALWAYS carry a firearm when walking my dog. Sad, but necessary.
Jack G.
how dare us protect ourselves?!?!
Robert K.
Give me a break Rambo. Get back to me when you’ve pulled a trigger against anything besides paper targets. Pretty sure you might end up in a bit of hot water for shooting a gun in a residential neighborhood.
Matt W.
considering I’m retired military, I assure you I’ve fired against more than paper. I’d rather end up in hot water than mauled by a dog from an irresponsible owner.
Robert K.
I carry a baseball bat and mace. It happened so quickly I couldn’t do anything.
Jane J. (who was attacked)
Here’s what I would do! Go and buy a .22mm handgun or a .380 Take a class send so you can carry concealed!! And just keep it in your pocket or what ever, if your a first time shooter take a first time shooting, to be SAFE for you and people around you. I’D RATHER HAVE A GUN AND NOT HAVE TO USE IT, INSTEAD OF NEEDING IT AND NOT HAVING IT!! Coyotes are open season here in NM, I’d rather shoot one or two before they kill your Dog(s) or put you in the Hospital. NRA Member and pro gun.This is just my opinion.
Gary C.
So, we went from two dog bites to being badly mauled, and shooting while being attacked, all in a neighborhood with senior citizens and school children around. Then they start discussing ammunition, such as a .357 with snakeshot. Then Stephanie posts a pic of 23 fatal dog attacks, but omits 430 unintentional firearm fatalities.
And, as Jane the Victim herself then noted, it happened too quickly for her to fully respond. I can just imagine one of those bozos shooting off a few of his own toes. Especially if he followed Gary’s NRA advice of keeping the gun in “your pocket or whatever“. Gary might just take out something a bit higher than his toes.
The Breed, the Breed!
He almost looks part Akita.
Debbie S.
I agree. Something in the close up picture brings it out in like the ears to jawline.
Alison G.
This dog is definitely part Akita. I was bitten about 10 years ago by an Akita! He was abused my the owners & there children.
Donna F.
Looks like it’s got akida in it. They can be very aggressive.
Harry R.
It looks like a police dog
Diana W.
Except, this little dog is about the quarter of the size of an Akita, and looks nothing like one. But, she continued to insist. As for the police dog, perhaps he’s just undercover?
Commeth the Doggie Experts
Hey!! It’s not the dogs fault, goodness. It’s crappie humans. He was scared. His body language clearly indicates this, not aggressive tendencies. If he was extremely aggressive his tail would be different, it’s relaxed, ears are positioned differently. He’s just scared. Possibly disoriented. Overwhelming, trying to create space, thus why he lunged, and bit to create space. Someone got in his bubble. He probably warned first, and nobody listened? Correct. I got this just from the photo. Be smart carry a stun baton. Two seconds to rear sends them running if they grab you..
Page P.
But his body language does not look aggressive at all. I’m assuming if you swung at him, he lunged, at bite. I would have too! Blame the human, not the dog. Because then the people in control just euthanize without thinking, without education, or training. Most of the time I successfully rehabilitate aggressive dogs, who really are not aggressive. So please, blame the human, not the animal. Animals are being animals..correct? If I was scared, disoriented, lost or dehydrated, and people swung stuff at me, you bet you butt I would bite. Perspective, or devils advocate. I hate the euthanasia word. I fight for animal rights. Most the time it’s a huge misunderstanding.
Except, the picture was labeled as taken from a car, on another street, some time after the incident. Page clearly has no idea what happened, but is not allowing that to hold her back in any way. Instead, she’ll just make things up as she goes. Having people like this fighting for animal rights can be truly scary.
Then Page begins to speculate that maybe the dog is deaf, and that the noise of the walking scared him?
Jenna – but you weren’t there and have no idea what really happened. I was walking a few weeks ago and had a huge German shepherd run full force straight at me. The owners inside their house didn’t realize the garage door was open and he got loose. If I had a bat and swung it at him, he would have bitten me for sure. Instead I held my ground and quickly talked to him like he was one of my dogs and deescalated the situation. If it had been someone afraid of dogs, had run from this dog or was swinging a bat, I could see it turn into this exact scenario. That dog wasn’t aggressive or viscous, he was just protecting his space and that’s what this dog could have been doing as well.
Pam D.
Once again, Pam doesn’t really know any of this. If she had swung at the dog, he might just as well run off in terror. If he was socialized or Pam was outside his space, he had nothing at all to protect.
Unless specifically trained to “attack upon command” by their handler, most canines will not attack a human unless they feel threatened or endangered or unless they are injured or very sick (rabies, etc). The incident was most unfortunate and a visit to the ER is never fun. The dog’s collar does suggest extra padding to prevent injuries from excessive tugging or hitting the end of a chain (chaining a dog should also be a jail time offense for the owner). But it is indeed tagged. Even if the photo was taken from inside a vehicle, the dogs posture is not threatening in this photo. Makes me wonder if the injured person yelled at or tried to hit the dog with the baseball bat to begin with and the dog was simply trying to defend itself against the physical threat from the human.
Sometimes dogs just jump the fence, find an unlocked /open gate, run out the front door, or chase a rabbit. The injured person’s statements are highly suggestive that they fear dogs. And dogs easily pick up on that. Some automatically smell the humans fear as being an antagonist and then get scared themselves. And why care a baseball bat on a walk unless you are going to hit a person you encounter – like a neighbor you don’t like???? I often pick up a stick or walk with a walking stick. But a BASEBALL BAT??? Come on, folks!!!!!
J.D.
The dog’s collar suggests about 500 various things, ranging from J.D.’s chain idea to a helicopter lift. On the dog’s now non-threatening posture, are you saying that every aggressive dog must maintain a threatening posture for all of their woken hours? They they are never permitted to relax that?
So sorry, J.D., but Jane never indicated that she was simply afraid of dogs. Of course, many people become afraid of dogs who seem afraid. Even for many of those who profess to love dogs, this does not mean that they know how to deal with the issue. And, that’s the most likely cause of all this.
Many people walk with sticks or bats. Did you see the post re the white car following someone? Walking nowadays some sort of protect is quite common. If it were a cane or walking stick, would it be different?
Holly D.
I was walking on a wooded trail this morning with my dogs. I saw many people, maybe two of them with walking sticks. However, in the past several years, I’ve yet to see somebody carrying a baseball bat.
Defence in a Dog Attack
Holly , I walk with a large heavy stick, I’ve been approached by a vicious dog twice in my neighborhood, not any where near this incident. I wish people would be more aware and leash their dogs. When I asked the neighbor to, please leash his dog, he’s response was to Foff, and that the dog was coming to say Hi, I said really gashing his teeth’s at me drooling and baking and charging me?? No, he wasn’t! This is a High school teacher. I was shocked. I’ve reported him numerous times, and he continues to NOT leash his aggressive dog.
Tee L.
Well, if that dog is vicious, you must have made several trips to urgent care. What you described was a poorly socialized dog who was interested in meeting you. Unless you really look and smell like lunch, most simply aggressive dogs just won’t come anywhere near you.
Now, do you really have any idea of how to use that stick? I mentioned this dog attack thread at the dog park this morning. One fellow mentioned how his grandfather used to live out in rural farm areas, where there were many loose dogs roaming. Some of them not very nice. He’d take with him a thin stick and never had any issues. No, he never hit or even touched a dog, but just used the stick on the ground in front of them, telling them not to approach. Of course, he was also a horse trainer, so he had some sense of animal behavior, which most city folks are missing.
Mario you sound like you never owned a dog in your life, dogs attack for no reason all the time. They attack my dog who shows no aggression all the time, on walks when I am hiking. I once came across some people with a dog off leash, mine is always leashed, they said don’t worry he will not bit. As quick as they said that, their dog charged my dog from the rear. I was right next to him, it could have bitten me too. I hit that dog hard my stick enough to make it pause on the second charge. The owners apologizing and i dare anyone to tell me not to hit their attacking dog. Now I yell ahead, PUT YOUR DOG ON LEASH! Unleashed dogs who don’t obey commands, are a danger to people and wildlife.
Bonnie C.
So very sorry, Bonnie, but you sound like you’ve never owned a dog in your life. Dogs never attack for no reason. The dog would only run over if he wanted to meet you or your dog. Now, if either or both of you lacked social skills and became very fearful, the approaching dog would become scared. If he had good social skills, he would simply stop, and back away. But, if not, he’s likely to get right next to you before he gets scared enough for him or you to do something nasty.
As for your stick, just using it on the ground in front of the dog would have been even more effective. In many cases I’ll just lean over, hold out a stop hand, and tell the dog to stop, without moving at all. Even if I have a scared dog with me, I’ve taught them to move behind me and not panic. There have been very few cases where any more was needed, and I’m speaking of meeting many hundreds of dogs.
I have owned Pit-bulls, Labradors, Malamutes and various mixed breeds. When your dog was attacked, did you let go of your leash so that your dog could defend itself?
Of course not, you were too busy beating the dog with a stick. Most dogs will work it out without any blood shed. I wish people could be the same. What happened was wrong and could have been avoided but go ahead and keep swinging.If you knew anything about animals you would know that they can sense what you are feeling. Dogs, horses, bulls, all animals can feel what you are feeling. If you are walking down the street, see an unleashed dog and think, “if you get near me I will hit you with this stick”, guess what that dog will probably do. Animals are still animals and will always revert to what they know. I let the leash go to teach my dog that it’s ok to defend himself when he is scared. I hope your dog never has to, he won’t know how, dogs and coyotes will know that.
Mario G.
Actually, there’s a little bit of truth there. If the dogs are raised in a pack, without any humans interfering, they will learn to work out most things. The problem here is that the dogs lacked the social skills, and the human was clueless. Also, that Jane did not even have a dog with her at the time. So much for your reading skills, Mario.
And her walking down the street while carrying the bat causing the dog to attack her is more than a bit far-fetched.
Now, should you let your dog’s leash drop? Well, you surely don’t want to hold him tight while another dog’s trying to bite him. But your dog also needs the social skills to handle himself with another dog, and an on-leash confrontation is maybe the worst way to do that. I would take scared dogs, and first introduce them to very socialized dogs. Then we’d start slowly adding a variety of sizes, ages, and temperaments. And all this is after some initial control training, allowing me to verbally guide the dog’s behavior a bit.
After all that, the dog has acquired confidence in both avoiding and managing fights. While Mario’s approach is more like just throwing kids in the lake to teach swimming.
Questions Must be Victim Blaming
Let’s ensure we’re not blaming the victim here.
She explained numerous times that this photo was taken after the attack and from her car and thus why the animal doesn’t look vicious. I am stunned how “neighbors” are blaming the person who was attacked by an aggressive dog. I’m sure she was too busy fighting for her life to take a pic to prove the dog’s viciousness in the middle of the unprovoked attack. Wow.
victim blaming at its finest continues.
Jenna J.
I am saddened by some of the responses on here. One of our neighbors was attacked by someone’s animal. The amount of people victim blaming is just ridiculous. It is not unreasonable for a woman in today’s world to carry a bat or some other weapon with her on a walk.
Wade D.
Sure, many of the comments and questions were based on only judgmental ignorance, but a few were actually reasonable, given the circumstances. And note Jenna now says that Jane was fighting for her life, and Wade says that it’s become quite reasonable for a woman to carry a bat with her on a walk.
Yet, neither one of them see how absurd their comments are.
And the Conclusion
Hearing the initial report, many people at the dog park very quickly took a different view on that. Few of them have ever been confronted by a dog that neither they nor their dog could easily handle, and they don’t walk around carrying a baseball bat. While most know only a little of dog behavior, they are also lacking many of the myths and ignorance found in this blog here. But, none of them will speak up on NextDoor, because they know you can’t force people to learn.
As for what actually happened here, my best guess is that both parties were scared enough that we just don’t know. And will not know, unless I happen to find that dog and assess his behavior.